The caretaker from Joanna off Wales, partner from Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth

Pursuing the my writeup on the children out-of Llywelyn Fawr and you may Joanna together with solutions they acquired, I featured again from genealogical pages dedicated to Gwladus Ddu. Even though it is real, since numerous genealogists mention, you to throughout the absence of distinct research for some reason, this new identity of your mommy from Gwladus Ddu have to are still ‘unknown’, I discovered no reason to change my personal achievement you to their mommy try Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.

Vat

You to definitely after that provider about their students is the after the abstract from the ‘Kings and you may Queens away from Britain’ a well-respected publication, written by Oxford College Force, page 106:

‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, young man out of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and Marared, daughter off Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; hitched Joan, illegitimate child off Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’

To show it is just myself that thinks therefore, i want to quotation you to definitely genealogist who is good partner off Sharon: “I’m very fond of Sharon Kay Penman’s instructions. While they commonly purely biographical, I feel much warmer relying on her try to ‘submit the brand new blanks’ (because of the quantity of research she however put in her guides), compared to in fact pointing out certain genealogical sources that we attended around the inside my browse (I know all of us stumble on sources like that). So you’re able to anyone who has not yet discover their unique functions, I will suggest they most highly, especially if you want to get a be for just what lifestyle try such as 800 years ago.”

Their own research for ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the fresh Shadow’ and you can ‘Brand new Reckoning’, carried out until the regarding the internet, try it’s outstanding

After the questions presented from the Beth, Suzanne and you will Exotic specifically, We begin evaluating brand new title off Joanna’s mommy (regarded hereafter, to possess easier site because the ‘Clemence’ perhaps not ‘Clementia’) as a consequence of an affair for the in order to-be-king John. This step became much more complex than simply I’d have thought you are able to! Immediately following running upwards of numerous blind alleys, mainly as a consequence of looking to get together again the chronology of a single for the other, We have paid on what comes after. I really don’t point out that the things i wrote try definitive in any shape otherwise function, therefore the facts are that we will in all probability never be sure out of their own title.

(a) The illegitimate Joanna, child of “Clemence,” try certainly born away from wedlock –– as it is turned out by Honorius III’s decree declaring her genuine when you look at the April 1226, no matter if in the place of bias towards the queen otherwise field of The united kingdomt (i.age., offering her no claim to this throne). The latest decree, which has been transcribed regarding unique, unpublished Register away from Honorius III (Reg. 13, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia you to “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” and therefore, I am told, translates as “King John of England, whenever solitary , fathered your by the an unmarried woman.”

This means Joanna have come produced no later on than 1189 whenever John partnered Isabella out-of Gloucester. Their own mommy, “Clemence” is probably French or Norman, due to the fact proof on patent rolls out-of John’s rule shows that Joan try delivered of Normandy in order to The united kingdomt in December 1203, to arrange having wedding in order to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (select below). Joanna died in the Feb 1237.

(b) John’s legitimate daughter Joan, because of the Isabella away from Angouleme (hitched in order to John into the 1200 at decades several!), came to be on Gloucester to the twenty-two July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals about Rolls Collection, vol. thirty six.i, p. 59; the fresh new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty-six.iv, p. 399; and Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to own John’s Reign, pp. 124, 143). Here is the Joan who subsequently partnered Alexander best dating site for hottest bulgarian women II off Scotland and you can she died into the 1238, specific weeks once Joanna (this may make up a few of the distress clear amongst the several women). She leftover no hassle by the Alexander II.